Thanks for agreeing to this interview Meg! I’m excited to share your work and wisdom with others.
Firstly, how would you describe yourself?
Human. Generous. Terrified for the fate of non-human beings. Anxious about the future of the earth.
What would you say is your main identity?
I identify as human. Other people might consider me “non-binary”, but that description doesn’t really capture my identity.
Who are some of your role models — people you respect and learn from? And why?
Rowe Morrow, for her selfless dedication to teaching permaculture in some of the most difficult and dangerous places on earth, and for the very real difference she has made to the lives of so many humans, particularly refugees.
Greta Thunberg, for her unwavering dedication to holding people accountable for climate change and the atrocities of war.
My daughter, Zoe, for teaching me what love really means, for constantly providing a living example of an ethical life, and for setting standards of parenting that I aspire to.
What are 3 main projects or goals you’re focusing on at the moment?
i) I’m struggling with my commitment to permaculture and my increasing discomfort with it. What if it’s all just a distraction? A way to help people feel better about their overconsumption while failing to address the system causes of climate change, extinction and ecological decline? I allow that in the majority world, permaculture has indeed been a force for good, but in affluent cultures it seems mostly to be an excuse to head to (insert name of major hardware chain here). I’m trying to figure out what comes next.
ii) Redesigning our property and our lives for retirement. My partner and I are both in our mid-sixties and we hope to stay living here, but that will require some changes to the way we manage our system.
iii) Family: Supporting my daughter and her husband as they raise my grandson, and enjoying the absolute delight that comes with grandparenting, while at the same time providing support to my 91-year-old Mum who has recently moved into residential aged care.
What are 3 achievements you’re proud of?
i) Parenting a truly impressive human being who continues to astound me with both her professional and personal success.
ii) I was responsible for the formation of the first Child Protection Enforcement Agency within the NSW Police Force and integral in the redesign of the Major Crime Force, where I helped to create a model that supported ethical policing and discouraged corruption. Every system is perfectly designed to get exactly the results it gets. When you change systems, you change the way people behave within them.
iii) I beat a terminal diagnosis of triple-negative breast cancer and wrote a book on Acceptance Commitment Therapy from a user’s perspective to help others deal with the fear of recurrence after cancer treatment — Free From Fear: Living Well After Cancer.
Tell us more about one of these.
The redesign of major crime included the covert application of permaculture principles. Instead of organisational silos, the new model consists of concentric circles that move in opposite directions. Corruption starts with Commanders either ignoring it, not seeing it or actively encouraging it, and in a silo model, junior officers cannot avoid corruption without breaking ranks and risking repercussions. A circular model means that the specialist investigators remain within squads but the Commanders move between them, because at that level the primary skill set is leadership, not specialist investigation knowledge. Similarly, the junior constables are also moved between squads, providing them with the opportunity to compare different practices and cultures and to report any corruption concerns (actually, just their movement discouraged corruption, because a corrupt officer would know that any junior officer they involve will be moving on and may report them).
If people want to get in touch with you, can they?
The best way to get in touch with me is via messenger, but people need to know that I am moving into a phase of my life where my top priorities are my family. There will be more time available for new adventures when my Mum dies, and that might be months or years away.
How can people support your work?
Anyone that wants to come by on a Monday from midday onwards to help in the garden will be rewarded with my spontaneous permaculture teaching, a free workout moving mulch, and access to our extensive collection of plants that grow from cuttings and offsets. There is also a clothing-optional pool and occasional free produce from the garden. For those looking for a meaningful organisation that needs more support, I highly recommend Rising Tide. I am not active within that group (I’m an otrovert) but I have friends who are, and I am greatly impressed.
Thank you so much Meg for taking part here, and for everything you do for people and planet!
Photo supplied by Meg McGowan. Meg’s t-shirt reads “Human * Kind * be both”.
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